toodeep
Sep 20, 04:07 AM
Paraphrasing @emotion: "it's an mpeg-2 world".
Potential iTV customers will have expectations of being able to watch DVD-content and recorded digital TV programmes, and Apple would be wise to not dissapoint them I think. Similarly for the true video iPod. And if the iTV engine can render MPEG-2 on the fly (and why not: my pocket drive can do this and at the same time up-convert to 1080i) them maybe adding a USB tuner will be an option. (That said I'm very satified with my Mac-friendly Toppy PVR.)
Potential iTV customers will have expectations of being able to watch DVD-content and recorded digital TV programmes, and Apple would be wise to not dissapoint them I think. Similarly for the true video iPod. And if the iTV engine can render MPEG-2 on the fly (and why not: my pocket drive can do this and at the same time up-convert to 1080i) them maybe adding a USB tuner will be an option. (That said I'm very satified with my Mac-friendly Toppy PVR.)
myamid
Sep 12, 06:39 PM
The HDD space worries me a little. I'm betting they'll offer different versions with $299 being the entry level model with the smallest hard drive. More space will come on higher priced sets. But the harddisk size is something I'm a little concerned about. Does anyone know if it was mentioned wether movies bought can be transfered to another harddrive for safekeeping, or something along those lines?
I don't think the box will have local storage per-se. - it isn't advertised (yet) as a DVR. It's more like the Elgato EyeHome as it streams content stored on your computer. So the HD issue will be on the computer.
I don't think the box will have local storage per-se. - it isn't advertised (yet) as a DVR. It's more like the Elgato EyeHome as it streams content stored on your computer. So the HD issue will be on the computer.
javajedi
Oct 8, 05:51 PM
Mac are the fastest in things like MP3 encoding, MPEG4/DIVX encoding ...[/B][/QUOTE]
1) DiVX performance on the mac absolutely blows.
2) After I read your little post I ran a simple benchmark comparing my $3500 top of the line PowerBook:
The P4 ripped and encoded a 6:20 song @ 128kbit/s in a total of 12 seconds. The same process (same song) @ 128kbit/s in iTunes took 47 seconds.
What does that say?
1) DiVX performance on the mac absolutely blows.
2) After I read your little post I ran a simple benchmark comparing my $3500 top of the line PowerBook:
The P4 ripped and encoded a 6:20 song @ 128kbit/s in a total of 12 seconds. The same process (same song) @ 128kbit/s in iTunes took 47 seconds.
What does that say?
citizenzen
Mar 15, 11:24 PM
Have I defined "contain" to your satisfaction?
Not really.
Here. I'll provide an example of equally insightful commentary ...
One day, this will all be over.
Not really.
Here. I'll provide an example of equally insightful commentary ...
One day, this will all be over.
MacCoaster
Oct 10, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
I can just about assure you that the Mac is at a severe software disadvantage.
And hardware. No hardware double precision floating point Altivec unit.
I can just about assure you that the Mac is at a severe software disadvantage.
And hardware. No hardware double precision floating point Altivec unit.
sinsin07
Apr 8, 11:43 PM
Gaming on idevices is for nubes. Live on PS3, Xbox and the future NGP.
ender land
Apr 23, 09:29 PM
Wow. I see it completely the other way. The religious people look at the atheists as lost souls, sinners, who need to be saved. They want their beliefs to be the basis for our laws. They need to have god thrown in our faces, on our money, in our pledges, in our courtrooms, etc. etc. And this is in the land of the free where separation of church and state is supposed to be one our most basic rights!
Don't believe me, check any poll about who people in the United States trust or who they would vote for. Atheists are always at the bottom of both lists!
How many people became theistic because of atheism? Or have their religious views strengthened as a result of atheism?
How many people became atheist because of religion? Or have their atheistic views strengthened as a result of religion?
This was my point in that statement.
And of course atheists will be less trusted. Atheism rejects non-societal Morals (unless you want to pull the "absolute morals exist and god(s) do not" version of atheism). Morality is completely defined by society at that point or at a more direct sense, by us.
Someone who is a practicing theist has a "standard" of Morals to abide by. Granted, a lot - if not most - of politicians are the "I'm a once a month Christian so people will vote for me" type but some (like GWB for better or worse) appear to take their faith with them to the office. This is a far more reliable set of beliefs, whether or not you agree with them, than someone who has arbitrary or personally decided morals.
Don't believe me, check any poll about who people in the United States trust or who they would vote for. Atheists are always at the bottom of both lists!
How many people became theistic because of atheism? Or have their religious views strengthened as a result of atheism?
How many people became atheist because of religion? Or have their atheistic views strengthened as a result of religion?
This was my point in that statement.
And of course atheists will be less trusted. Atheism rejects non-societal Morals (unless you want to pull the "absolute morals exist and god(s) do not" version of atheism). Morality is completely defined by society at that point or at a more direct sense, by us.
Someone who is a practicing theist has a "standard" of Morals to abide by. Granted, a lot - if not most - of politicians are the "I'm a once a month Christian so people will vote for me" type but some (like GWB for better or worse) appear to take their faith with them to the office. This is a far more reliable set of beliefs, whether or not you agree with them, than someone who has arbitrary or personally decided morals.
kainjow
Oct 25, 10:31 PM
OK. I know that many of my apps aren't going to take advantage of this level of multithreaded power, but I can't help but get excited by this development. After so many years of sluggish improvement, it feels like we're in the midst of rapid (and radical) change.
Each process is it's own thread. And most processes have multiple threads. Unless you only always have one program open at a time, more cores always can help speed up your system.
Each process is it's own thread. And most processes have multiple threads. Unless you only always have one program open at a time, more cores always can help speed up your system.
MacCoaster
Oct 10, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by javajedi
Someone inquired about the benchmark Java console program I created:
It's located at http://members.ij.net/javajedi
I've also included the source (FPMathTest.java) for the curious.
<snip>
Kevin
That was me. :)
Thanks. See above post for my results. I even ported your Java code to C# (so similar, it scared me!) and got slightly lower numbers.
8152, 8151, 8162, 8142, 8172, 8142, 8161, 8152... all for a final average of 8154.25.
[edit: whoa, recently got 7891... running it more to average]
[edit #2: 7891, 7892, 7902, 7891, 7882, 7892, 7882, 7881... all for a final average of 7889.125]
You may have the source code/binary to test on your Windows computer (or Linux, with Mono; or BSD, with Microsoft's ROTOR)--just give me a hoot.
Someone inquired about the benchmark Java console program I created:
It's located at http://members.ij.net/javajedi
I've also included the source (FPMathTest.java) for the curious.
<snip>
Kevin
That was me. :)
Thanks. See above post for my results. I even ported your Java code to C# (so similar, it scared me!) and got slightly lower numbers.
8152, 8151, 8162, 8142, 8172, 8142, 8161, 8152... all for a final average of 8154.25.
[edit: whoa, recently got 7891... running it more to average]
[edit #2: 7891, 7892, 7902, 7891, 7882, 7892, 7882, 7881... all for a final average of 7889.125]
You may have the source code/binary to test on your Windows computer (or Linux, with Mono; or BSD, with Microsoft's ROTOR)--just give me a hoot.
Huntn
Apr 26, 07:07 PM
Atheist believe in the non-existence of God; some as fervently as Christians believe in one.
I'm not enough of an Atheist expert to agree with you on this, but there is definitely a difference between belief in the non-existence of God and not believing in God because there is not enough evidence. As I said previously believe in God is based on a threshold. Non belief is based on anything less the threshold of belief being reached. Maybe one of our friendly Atheists will confirm or deny. :)
I'm not enough of an Atheist expert to agree with you on this, but there is definitely a difference between belief in the non-existence of God and not believing in God because there is not enough evidence. As I said previously believe in God is based on a threshold. Non belief is based on anything less the threshold of belief being reached. Maybe one of our friendly Atheists will confirm or deny. :)
peharri
Sep 23, 10:25 AM
Perhaps we've just been exposed to different sources of info. I viewed the sept 12 presentation in its entirety, and have read virtually all the reports and comments on macrumors, appleinsider, think secret, engadget, the wall street journal, and maccentral, among others. It was disney chief bob iger who was quoted saying iTV had a hard drive; that was generally interpreted (except by maccentral, which took the statement literally) to mean it had some sort of storage, be it flash or a small HD, and that it would be for buffering/caching to allow streaming of huge files at relatively slow (for the purpose) wireless speeds.
I've read absolutely everything I can too and I have to disagree with you still.
It makes absolutely no sense for Bob Iger to have been told there's "some sort of storage" if this isn't storage in any conventional sense. Storage to a layman means somewhere where you store things, not something transitory used by the machine in a way you can't fathom. So, we have two factors here:
First - Bob's been talking about a hard disk. That absolutely doesn't point at a cache, it's too expensive to be a cache.
Second - Even if Bob got the technology wrong, he's been told the machine has "storage". That's not a term you generally use to mean "transitory storage for temporary objects".
The suggestion Bob's talking about a cache is being made, in my view, because people know it'll need some sort of caching to overcome 802.11/etc temporary bandwidth issues (Hmm. Kind of. You guys do know we're talking about way less bandwidth requirements than a DVD right - and that a DVD-formatted MPEG2 will transmit realtime on an 802.11g link? What's more, for 99% of Internet users, their DSL connection has less bandwidth than their wireless link, even if they're on the other side of the house with someone else's WAN in range and on the same channel. Yes, 802.11 suffers drop-outs, but we're talking about needing seconds worth of video effected, not hours) As such, you're trying to find evidence that it'll deal with caching.
YOU DON'T NEED TO. A few megabytes of RAM is enough to ensure smooth playback will happen. This is a non-problem. Everyone who's going this route is putting way too much thought into designing a solution to something that isn't hard to solve.
Nonetheless, because it's an "issue", everything is being interpreted in that light. If there's "storage", it must be because of caching! Well, in my opinion, if there's storage, it's almost certainly to do with storage. You don't need it for caching.
I'm trying to imagine a conversation with Bob Iger where the issue of flash or hard disk space for caching content to avoid 802.11 issues would come up, and where the word "storage" would be used purely in that context. It's hard. I don't see them talking about caches to Iger. It makes no sense. They might just as well talk about DCT transforms or the Quicktime API.
I'm perfectly willing to be wrong. But i don't think i am. Let's continue reading the reports and revisit this subject here in a day or two.
Sure. I'm perfectly willing to be wrong too. I'm certainly less sure of it than I am of the iPhone rumours being bunk.
Regardless of the truth, I have to say the iTV makes little sense unless, regardless of whether it contains a hard disk or not, it can stream content directly from the iTS. Without the possibility of being used as a computer-less media hub, it becomes an overly expensive and complicated solution for what could more easily be done by making a bolt-on similar to that awful TubePort concept.
I'm 99% sure the machine is intended as an independent hub that can use iTunes libraries on the same network but can also go to the iTS directly and view content straight from there (and possibly other sources, such as Google Video.) I can see why Apple would make that. I can see why it would take a $300 machine to do that and make it practical. I see the importance of the iTS and the potential dangers to it as the cellphone displaces the iPod, and Apple's need to shore it up. I can see studio executives "not getting it" with online movies if those movies can only be seen on laptops, PCs, and iPods.
If Apple does force the thing to need a computer, I think they need to come out with an 'iTunes server' box that can fufill the same role, and it has to be cheap.
I've read absolutely everything I can too and I have to disagree with you still.
It makes absolutely no sense for Bob Iger to have been told there's "some sort of storage" if this isn't storage in any conventional sense. Storage to a layman means somewhere where you store things, not something transitory used by the machine in a way you can't fathom. So, we have two factors here:
First - Bob's been talking about a hard disk. That absolutely doesn't point at a cache, it's too expensive to be a cache.
Second - Even if Bob got the technology wrong, he's been told the machine has "storage". That's not a term you generally use to mean "transitory storage for temporary objects".
The suggestion Bob's talking about a cache is being made, in my view, because people know it'll need some sort of caching to overcome 802.11/etc temporary bandwidth issues (Hmm. Kind of. You guys do know we're talking about way less bandwidth requirements than a DVD right - and that a DVD-formatted MPEG2 will transmit realtime on an 802.11g link? What's more, for 99% of Internet users, their DSL connection has less bandwidth than their wireless link, even if they're on the other side of the house with someone else's WAN in range and on the same channel. Yes, 802.11 suffers drop-outs, but we're talking about needing seconds worth of video effected, not hours) As such, you're trying to find evidence that it'll deal with caching.
YOU DON'T NEED TO. A few megabytes of RAM is enough to ensure smooth playback will happen. This is a non-problem. Everyone who's going this route is putting way too much thought into designing a solution to something that isn't hard to solve.
Nonetheless, because it's an "issue", everything is being interpreted in that light. If there's "storage", it must be because of caching! Well, in my opinion, if there's storage, it's almost certainly to do with storage. You don't need it for caching.
I'm trying to imagine a conversation with Bob Iger where the issue of flash or hard disk space for caching content to avoid 802.11 issues would come up, and where the word "storage" would be used purely in that context. It's hard. I don't see them talking about caches to Iger. It makes no sense. They might just as well talk about DCT transforms or the Quicktime API.
I'm perfectly willing to be wrong. But i don't think i am. Let's continue reading the reports and revisit this subject here in a day or two.
Sure. I'm perfectly willing to be wrong too. I'm certainly less sure of it than I am of the iPhone rumours being bunk.
Regardless of the truth, I have to say the iTV makes little sense unless, regardless of whether it contains a hard disk or not, it can stream content directly from the iTS. Without the possibility of being used as a computer-less media hub, it becomes an overly expensive and complicated solution for what could more easily be done by making a bolt-on similar to that awful TubePort concept.
I'm 99% sure the machine is intended as an independent hub that can use iTunes libraries on the same network but can also go to the iTS directly and view content straight from there (and possibly other sources, such as Google Video.) I can see why Apple would make that. I can see why it would take a $300 machine to do that and make it practical. I see the importance of the iTS and the potential dangers to it as the cellphone displaces the iPod, and Apple's need to shore it up. I can see studio executives "not getting it" with online movies if those movies can only be seen on laptops, PCs, and iPods.
If Apple does force the thing to need a computer, I think they need to come out with an 'iTunes server' box that can fufill the same role, and it has to be cheap.
dgree03
Apr 28, 02:38 PM
Huh? A 2008 MBP should have no problem running iTunes.
Flash for Mac sucks even on the most high-end Macs. Why do you think Mac users tend to dislike Flash? It's not the Mac - it's Adobe.
Flash on my Air runs wonderfully... :rolleyes:
Flash for Mac sucks even on the most high-end Macs. Why do you think Mac users tend to dislike Flash? It's not the Mac - it's Adobe.
Flash on my Air runs wonderfully... :rolleyes:
jk8311
Sep 12, 03:24 PM
This is the same thing as having a mac mini connected to your TV...though I guess it has HDMI. This leads me to believe that they will release a Software Update for Front Row upon release of the "iTV".
Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
digitalbiker
Sep 12, 04:27 PM
I have seen this stated a few time - but not stated anywhere by apple.
All I picked up form SJ was " we are pleased with the quality"
+spider+ite+symptoms
widow spider bite symptoms
Brown Recluse Spider Bite
+sac+spider+ite+symptoms
View your profile. Common
All I picked up form SJ was " we are pleased with the quality"
RedTomato
Aug 29, 11:36 AM
I try to have a low environmental footprint (sometimes I fail, but I try to be aware of when and why I fail) and I do hope Apple improve their game.
As one poster said above, the Apple board are on record as reccomending preventing the start of their computer recycling program. That kind of appalling head-in-the-sand-ism doesn't give me high hopes for their other green credentials.
I think the low rating is a combination of several things :
1. Apple stupidly refusing to release info that would improve their ratings.
2. Vast overpackaging on their products. Apple products typically come inside a white bleached box inside a white bleached box inside another white bleached box. Dell probably uses recycled unbleached cardboard for their packaging. To be honest, when I opened my powerbook packaging, while I appreciated its nice design, I was also staggered at what a waste of space and resources it was.
3. Maybe, possibly, the Greenpeace survey didn't take into account the lifespan length of Apple computers as being designed to last longer than similar PCs.
4. Millions upon millions of Ipods. Many overpackaged, and intended to be thrown away when the battery goes... (yes some people have replaced them, but it's not a designed feature)
I have sort of noticed that many 1960s hippies or ex-hippies have a very me-me-me attitude - they meditate, go to workshops, do nice things etc, and it's all to improve themselves. Rarely do they think about actually improving others or the world in general. That's one advantage that the post-hippies generation has - they have a better ecological awareness (if I can be so general.)
I'll put my flame-pants on now and wait for you to contradict me.
As one poster said above, the Apple board are on record as reccomending preventing the start of their computer recycling program. That kind of appalling head-in-the-sand-ism doesn't give me high hopes for their other green credentials.
I think the low rating is a combination of several things :
1. Apple stupidly refusing to release info that would improve their ratings.
2. Vast overpackaging on their products. Apple products typically come inside a white bleached box inside a white bleached box inside another white bleached box. Dell probably uses recycled unbleached cardboard for their packaging. To be honest, when I opened my powerbook packaging, while I appreciated its nice design, I was also staggered at what a waste of space and resources it was.
3. Maybe, possibly, the Greenpeace survey didn't take into account the lifespan length of Apple computers as being designed to last longer than similar PCs.
4. Millions upon millions of Ipods. Many overpackaged, and intended to be thrown away when the battery goes... (yes some people have replaced them, but it's not a designed feature)
I have sort of noticed that many 1960s hippies or ex-hippies have a very me-me-me attitude - they meditate, go to workshops, do nice things etc, and it's all to improve themselves. Rarely do they think about actually improving others or the world in general. That's one advantage that the post-hippies generation has - they have a better ecological awareness (if I can be so general.)
I'll put my flame-pants on now and wait for you to contradict me.
skunk
Mar 26, 06:57 PM
No, I'm not saying that. Skunk said Ciaociao's Latin sentence was meaningless.It was not a Latin sentence, so it was certainly meaningless in Latin. If you look up "sign", as a noun meaning signification, and instead choose the first person singular of the Latin verb meaning "sign a letter", you are not off to a very promising start. Cicero would be rolling in his grave.
snoopy
Oct 11, 12:01 PM
Hate to drop in late like this, but the G3 had the same FPU as the 603, not the better one in the 604. When Motorola built the G4, they did not upgrade the FPU, but added AltiVec. This is what I understand. So, yes, double precision floating point does run poorly, with that old 603 FPU.
ezekielrage_99
Jul 11, 11:27 PM
I wonder I they put a Xeon in a Mac will it come with Intergrated graphics :confused: ;)
I sure hope Apple don't put intergrated graphics in the Mac Pros as ANY sort of an option......
I sure hope Apple don't put intergrated graphics in the Mac Pros as ANY sort of an option......
Cabbit
Apr 15, 11:21 AM
I've never encountered discrimination of LSBT in ether Scotland, Germany, or Thailand. But i did encounter it a lot in the USA it was very surreal and with my partner living in the USA just now studying i hear he gets bullied a lot in college just for being transgendered which is just absolutely crazy and he'll is glad to coming back to Europe in the next few months.
This is a real issue i feel that needs to be tackled in the USA as before i went i had assumed that people would be a lot more open there than they were.
This is a real issue i feel that needs to be tackled in the USA as before i went i had assumed that people would be a lot more open there than they were.
chromos
Sep 20, 09:46 AM
Well, a HDD for caching purposes should put to rest the speculation that the iTV is delayed until Q1 2007 in order for the 802.11n spec to "firm up". At least the a/g flavors should be sufficient to keep the unit fed.
Cutwolf
Mar 18, 01:35 PM
There are quite a lot of people in this thread who sound like AT&T employees trying to add to the scare tactics.
The cheapest and most efficient way for AT&T to "detect" tethering would be to monitor data usage and accuse high data users. They anticipate a lot of them will be uneducated and believe they have really been caught and switch to the official tethering plan (losing their unlimited, which I believe is AT&T ultimate goal here), or will simply ignore the text and they can automatically switch them, accomplishing the same thing.
If AT&T accuses you, and you refuse to switch to the new plan and claim you're not tethering, and they switch you anyway, you'd almost certainly be entitled to cancel with no ETF, legally at least. Particularly if they refused to do anything more than say "we suspect you are tethering" without providing any support.
To be fair, AT&T contract does say they can modify or terminate your account if the simply believe you are tethering, but no court would hold that belief, without a legitimate basis, is grounds for modification or termination, and it's hard to believe that 20 gb of data usage in a month would be a legitimate basis for that belief (those who are reaching ridiculous numbers like 50+ might be a different story.
My take (law student with no tech background): if they accuse you and send you the message, call them and play dumb and say you do a lot of streaming. If they buy it, great. If they end up switching you anyway, or forcing you to switch, you can presumably get out of the contract with no ETF. If this fails, and you have money to blow to prove a point, you can probably seek an injunction preventing AT&T from altering your contract, or a declaratory judgment that the contract permits you to get out of it without an ETF in this circumstance.
Odds are that AT&T would be unlikely to show up for any lawsuit filed by an individual over a few hundred bucks, which would entitle you to both the ETF and your legal fees.
Granted, I'm a student not yet a practitioner, so all of this should be taken with several grains of salt. Additionally, none of this should be construed to constitute legal advice.
The cheapest and most efficient way for AT&T to "detect" tethering would be to monitor data usage and accuse high data users. They anticipate a lot of them will be uneducated and believe they have really been caught and switch to the official tethering plan (losing their unlimited, which I believe is AT&T ultimate goal here), or will simply ignore the text and they can automatically switch them, accomplishing the same thing.
If AT&T accuses you, and you refuse to switch to the new plan and claim you're not tethering, and they switch you anyway, you'd almost certainly be entitled to cancel with no ETF, legally at least. Particularly if they refused to do anything more than say "we suspect you are tethering" without providing any support.
To be fair, AT&T contract does say they can modify or terminate your account if the simply believe you are tethering, but no court would hold that belief, without a legitimate basis, is grounds for modification or termination, and it's hard to believe that 20 gb of data usage in a month would be a legitimate basis for that belief (those who are reaching ridiculous numbers like 50+ might be a different story.
My take (law student with no tech background): if they accuse you and send you the message, call them and play dumb and say you do a lot of streaming. If they buy it, great. If they end up switching you anyway, or forcing you to switch, you can presumably get out of the contract with no ETF. If this fails, and you have money to blow to prove a point, you can probably seek an injunction preventing AT&T from altering your contract, or a declaratory judgment that the contract permits you to get out of it without an ETF in this circumstance.
Odds are that AT&T would be unlikely to show up for any lawsuit filed by an individual over a few hundred bucks, which would entitle you to both the ETF and your legal fees.
Granted, I'm a student not yet a practitioner, so all of this should be taken with several grains of salt. Additionally, none of this should be construed to constitute legal advice.
mangrove
Sep 2, 10:52 AM
:D:D:D
The happiest day of my life finally arrived-I switched to Verizon 2 days ago.
The happiest day of my life finally arrived-I switched to Verizon 2 days ago.
kdarling
Jun 14, 02:31 PM
If you want to program for the iPhone without buying a Mac or learning Objective-C, you can use DragonFire:
http://www.dragonfiresdk.com
It's a very (very) abbreviated C++ like API with screen and button and image suppoert, that you can use to program under free Visual Studio on a PC. Even has an iPhone emulator.
Then you click a button and it apparently sends a internally translated C to Objective-C source up to their Mac servers, which compile it for the iPhone and sends it back signed with their developer tag.
The SDK itself is something like $50 for a local-test-only version, and $100 for the full compile-for-the-real-device version.
For a small price you can submit it under their name to the App Store. Or something like that. Haven't tried it yet.
http://www.dragonfiresdk.com
It's a very (very) abbreviated C++ like API with screen and button and image suppoert, that you can use to program under free Visual Studio on a PC. Even has an iPhone emulator.
Then you click a button and it apparently sends a internally translated C to Objective-C source up to their Mac servers, which compile it for the iPhone and sends it back signed with their developer tag.
The SDK itself is something like $50 for a local-test-only version, and $100 for the full compile-for-the-real-device version.
For a small price you can submit it under their name to the App Store. Or something like that. Haven't tried it yet.
WestonHarvey1
Apr 15, 11:27 AM
Not what he said, but how he said it. But you already knew what I meant.
People tossing out random verses from the Pentateuch/Torah to defend or condemn religion is problematic and is above most people's pay grades. There are plenty of rabbis and other scholarly folks who can help people understand some of these harsh and difficult passages. Of course, it's easier and way more fun to remain ignorant of these books to play "gotcha!" with other people's religious beliefs.
The modern view of homosexual sex in all the orthodox Christian religions is so tame and simple it's almost boring. It's just premarital sex, which is considered sinful. It's not morally worse than heterosexual premarital sex. And yes, marriage is considered to be between a man and a woman in these religions, so yes, that does really suck for the orthodox gay Christian.
People tossing out random verses from the Pentateuch/Torah to defend or condemn religion is problematic and is above most people's pay grades. There are plenty of rabbis and other scholarly folks who can help people understand some of these harsh and difficult passages. Of course, it's easier and way more fun to remain ignorant of these books to play "gotcha!" with other people's religious beliefs.
The modern view of homosexual sex in all the orthodox Christian religions is so tame and simple it's almost boring. It's just premarital sex, which is considered sinful. It's not morally worse than heterosexual premarital sex. And yes, marriage is considered to be between a man and a woman in these religions, so yes, that does really suck for the orthodox gay Christian.
